Some interesting points here but I think this comes across very matter of fact when there is a lot more nuance
You're right to emphasise the authenticity and community building that's happening in USL. They've been shrewd with where they have chosen to place teams. However, there are some good examples also in MLS like Sounders, Timbers, Atlanta etc.
Promotion/ relegation within USL is still confined to a three league structure. Sure, it adds a bit of jeopardy but I think that context needs to be factored in. This isn't like in Europe where a club can rise from nothing or disintegrate entirely.
Totally hear you on Sounders, Timbers, Atlanta etc Andy. But they’re the outliers, not the norm. And that’s kind of the point. When you’ve poured billions into MLS over decades, you’d expect the floor to be higher across the board, not just a handful of clubs carrying the cultural weight.
As for the “confined to a three-league structure” point… how many more do you need? Is four the magic number for authenticity? Five and suddenly it’s Europe? Come on. 😅
What excites me is that you will see clubs rise from nothing. That’s already starting to happen. The fact that many will have to graft their way from the third tier makes it more compelling, not less. It forces clubs to be smart, community-first, and actually build something rather than just buy their way in with expansion fees.
The ingredients are all there. The real question is whether USL can bake the cake. I’d argue they’re already halfway through the recipe while MLS is still figuring out what kind of cake it wants to be.
Appreciate you jumping into the conversation. Always good to have sharp perspective in the mix. 🫡
It wasn't so much 3, or 4, or 5 leagues... It was more so that, as far as I'm aware/ as far as has been announced, it's still a closed system. You buy a USL franchise and you are contained within the USL professional ecosystem. You can't drop out of it, and if you are outside it and perform well, you can't get in (without paying) so I don't think you'll see a club rise from nothing - albeit seeing the journey from 3 to 2 to 1 does add more narrative and I think is a very positive move for that reason. Likewise, the punishment of dropping down when you don't perform is a good incentive for clubs to play until the end regardless of playoffs.
However, I think it is also worth acknowledging that this is still quite different from the proposition of relegation/promotion as it is known in the widely followed European and South American football leagues. It's more of a hybrid. Sort of like County Cricket in England where teams fluctuate between Divs 1 and 2.
I think USL is doing a lot of things right and the competition they are putting up against MLS is very positive for US Soccer in terms of driving innovation. I just wouldn't write off the MLS though
I hear you Andy, but I think you might be overanalysing it now. There’s always a cost to enter, however you want to define it. Whether it’s a license fee, stadium spec, or just having the right backers, access has never been truly free anywhere.
Bottom line is, promotion and relegation within a tiered system adds a whole new dynamic to the game in America. Sure, it might look like a hybrid version compared to the European or South American model, and the fine print might differ, but the product will be infinitely better than what MLS currently offers.
Neither of us have a crystal ball, but if I’m hedging the long-term play, I know where I’m putting my bets. It’s football. Win or lose, there are now real consequences. Financial consequences. Emotional consequences. And on the upside? It can be genuinely euphoric. Just how the rest of the world does it.
I actually would love to see this happen, but in practice I think it will be difficult to overtake the MLS. It just comes down to money. USL teams play in smaller stadiums and many teams play in smaller cities, which limits exposure/attendance. Soccernomics talks about how teams in Europe from smaller factory towns have been outbid by teams from the big city with large pocketbooks. Unless there is a huge influx of cash, players that have the choice will always choose the MLS over USL.
Very reasonable take Austin. But here’s what people miss. Yes, MLS has the money, the infrastructure, and the head start. No one’s denying that. But a “small town” in the US can still outsize a major European city.
Tulsa’s bigger than Lyon. Louisville has more people than Frankfurt. These aren’t sleepy little markets. They’re just waiting for someone to tell the right story and build something real.
It’s not about copying MLS. It’s about building something different. Smarter. With community at the core and a digital-first mindset. It’s going to take time. Years. Maybe even decades. Some will say it’s delusional. But delusion builds empires. 😉
And USL has just enough chaos, ambition, and underdog energy to make that happen.
To add to this, looking at American football or basketball or even baseball, at both the professional and college level, proves that the size of the market can be expanded if the community is engaged. The difficulty will be increase local market share, not local market dollars.
I really appreciate this bc I wasn’t aware of USL. But as you pointed out, MLS feels so disconnected & when you have something that reflects the passion of the supporters not the efforts of investors it’s got so much potential
Fully agree on MLS's problems. Not having promotion/relegation was a big mistake and it's impossible for them to implement it now. This will be seriously limitating for the league.
I don't know much about USL, but implementing several categories with promotion/relegation is definitely the way to go, football needs that possibility of going from the very bottom to the top, the ability to dream.
MLS teams feels like franchises, because they are, there's no real identity or conexion there.
Exactly this Hector. Football without promotion and relegation is like watching a movie where you know the hero can’t lose. What’s the point?
USL might not have the flashy headlines yet, but it’s building something real. Clubs with roots. Fans who bleed for their team. Actual stakes. That dream big, start small, shock the world energy.
Meanwhile, MLS feels more like a brand portfolio than a league. Great for sponsors, not so much for soul.
Keep watching USL, the real story’s just starting.
Great question Joel. European clubs are definitely leaning into brand mode with slicker logos, global campaigns, and preseason tours in LA or Singapore. But here’s the difference.
The pyramid still works. Relegation hurts. Promotion changes lives. No matter how polished the Instagram feed is, if you lose on the pitch, you go down. That keeps the soul intact.
Right now it’s a tug of war. Legacy versus lifestyle. Culture versus commerce. The smartest clubs will figure out how to build the brand without losing the roots. Eventually.
Some interesting points here but I think this comes across very matter of fact when there is a lot more nuance
You're right to emphasise the authenticity and community building that's happening in USL. They've been shrewd with where they have chosen to place teams. However, there are some good examples also in MLS like Sounders, Timbers, Atlanta etc.
Promotion/ relegation within USL is still confined to a three league structure. Sure, it adds a bit of jeopardy but I think that context needs to be factored in. This isn't like in Europe where a club can rise from nothing or disintegrate entirely.
Totally hear you on Sounders, Timbers, Atlanta etc Andy. But they’re the outliers, not the norm. And that’s kind of the point. When you’ve poured billions into MLS over decades, you’d expect the floor to be higher across the board, not just a handful of clubs carrying the cultural weight.
As for the “confined to a three-league structure” point… how many more do you need? Is four the magic number for authenticity? Five and suddenly it’s Europe? Come on. 😅
What excites me is that you will see clubs rise from nothing. That’s already starting to happen. The fact that many will have to graft their way from the third tier makes it more compelling, not less. It forces clubs to be smart, community-first, and actually build something rather than just buy their way in with expansion fees.
The ingredients are all there. The real question is whether USL can bake the cake. I’d argue they’re already halfway through the recipe while MLS is still figuring out what kind of cake it wants to be.
Appreciate you jumping into the conversation. Always good to have sharp perspective in the mix. 🫡
It wasn't so much 3, or 4, or 5 leagues... It was more so that, as far as I'm aware/ as far as has been announced, it's still a closed system. You buy a USL franchise and you are contained within the USL professional ecosystem. You can't drop out of it, and if you are outside it and perform well, you can't get in (without paying) so I don't think you'll see a club rise from nothing - albeit seeing the journey from 3 to 2 to 1 does add more narrative and I think is a very positive move for that reason. Likewise, the punishment of dropping down when you don't perform is a good incentive for clubs to play until the end regardless of playoffs.
However, I think it is also worth acknowledging that this is still quite different from the proposition of relegation/promotion as it is known in the widely followed European and South American football leagues. It's more of a hybrid. Sort of like County Cricket in England where teams fluctuate between Divs 1 and 2.
I think USL is doing a lot of things right and the competition they are putting up against MLS is very positive for US Soccer in terms of driving innovation. I just wouldn't write off the MLS though
I hear you Andy, but I think you might be overanalysing it now. There’s always a cost to enter, however you want to define it. Whether it’s a license fee, stadium spec, or just having the right backers, access has never been truly free anywhere.
Bottom line is, promotion and relegation within a tiered system adds a whole new dynamic to the game in America. Sure, it might look like a hybrid version compared to the European or South American model, and the fine print might differ, but the product will be infinitely better than what MLS currently offers.
Neither of us have a crystal ball, but if I’m hedging the long-term play, I know where I’m putting my bets. It’s football. Win or lose, there are now real consequences. Financial consequences. Emotional consequences. And on the upside? It can be genuinely euphoric. Just how the rest of the world does it.
I actually would love to see this happen, but in practice I think it will be difficult to overtake the MLS. It just comes down to money. USL teams play in smaller stadiums and many teams play in smaller cities, which limits exposure/attendance. Soccernomics talks about how teams in Europe from smaller factory towns have been outbid by teams from the big city with large pocketbooks. Unless there is a huge influx of cash, players that have the choice will always choose the MLS over USL.
Very reasonable take Austin. But here’s what people miss. Yes, MLS has the money, the infrastructure, and the head start. No one’s denying that. But a “small town” in the US can still outsize a major European city.
Tulsa’s bigger than Lyon. Louisville has more people than Frankfurt. These aren’t sleepy little markets. They’re just waiting for someone to tell the right story and build something real.
It’s not about copying MLS. It’s about building something different. Smarter. With community at the core and a digital-first mindset. It’s going to take time. Years. Maybe even decades. Some will say it’s delusional. But delusion builds empires. 😉
And USL has just enough chaos, ambition, and underdog energy to make that happen.
Fair argument! I’ll definitely be watching to see what happens!
🫡🫡🫡
To add to this, looking at American football or basketball or even baseball, at both the professional and college level, proves that the size of the market can be expanded if the community is engaged. The difficulty will be increase local market share, not local market dollars.
I really appreciate this bc I wasn’t aware of USL. But as you pointed out, MLS feels so disconnected & when you have something that reflects the passion of the supporters not the efforts of investors it’s got so much potential
Facts Miles. MLS feels like it was built in a boardroom. USL’s got that raw energy, proper football DNA. ⚽️🚀
Fully agree on MLS's problems. Not having promotion/relegation was a big mistake and it's impossible for them to implement it now. This will be seriously limitating for the league.
I don't know much about USL, but implementing several categories with promotion/relegation is definitely the way to go, football needs that possibility of going from the very bottom to the top, the ability to dream.
MLS teams feels like franchises, because they are, there's no real identity or conexion there.
Gonna be looking out more for USL now 👀
Exactly this Hector. Football without promotion and relegation is like watching a movie where you know the hero can’t lose. What’s the point?
USL might not have the flashy headlines yet, but it’s building something real. Clubs with roots. Fans who bleed for their team. Actual stakes. That dream big, start small, shock the world energy.
Meanwhile, MLS feels more like a brand portfolio than a league. Great for sponsors, not so much for soul.
Keep watching USL, the real story’s just starting.
Interesting, do you think the same could happen for European leagues who teams are becoming more and more "Brand oriented"?
Great question Joel. European clubs are definitely leaning into brand mode with slicker logos, global campaigns, and preseason tours in LA or Singapore. But here’s the difference.
The pyramid still works. Relegation hurts. Promotion changes lives. No matter how polished the Instagram feed is, if you lose on the pitch, you go down. That keeps the soul intact.
Right now it’s a tug of war. Legacy versus lifestyle. Culture versus commerce. The smartest clubs will figure out how to build the brand without losing the roots. Eventually.